Overheard: Puppy Edition

I was walking down the street behind a mom with her two daughters, who were maybe around 8 and 10 years old. I guess they had been begging their mother for a puppy and she'd asked them if they were willing to work hard for the money it would cost. One daughter said yes, she would get a job and work hard for the money. The other shrieked very loudly that she was not going to work hard to get money-- instead she was going to SAVE UP lots of money to pay for the puppy!
It was cute-- it got me thinking about how a kid might hear their parents talking about money coming from a job and coming from "saving up," but not understanding that usually it has to come from one before you can do the other!

Overheard in a Restaurant

If you want to keep your money conversations private, don't sit next to me! Though in this case, the person was sitting two tables away and talking loudly enough for half the restaurant to hear.

Scene: a Brooklyn eatery on a Saturday night
Characters: a young woman telling a story to 3 of her friends

Here's more or less what she said:

My mother grew up as one of 6 kids and she actually shared a bed, yeah, one bed, with her two sisters until she was like 15... she went away to college but she dropped out... she came back to New York and got a job on Wall Street and did really well... but her mother, my grandmother, always kept complaining about the money they'd spent on sending her to college and what a waste it was since she dropped out. I mean, she just couldn't let it go and literally every time they saw her she'd say all this stuff over and over again, so finally my dad got so sick of it that he just told her to calculate how much money it was, for tuition, travel, everything, and tell him how much it came to and he'd write her a check for that amount if she'd promise to shut up about it and never mention it again... my father had a very healthy attitude about money...

Once I'd heard the end of that story I didn't pay much more attention to her for awhile, until just before I was leaving the restaurant, when I heard her voice rise again with this interesting remark:

Let's just buy $400 worth of scratch-off tickets and see what happens!

I'd love to fill in the blanks in that conversation!

Overheard at the Gym

The women's locker room at my gym is the best place to overhear interesting money-related conversations. (Actually, I suppose the men's locker room could also be a good place, but I haven't had the chance to find out!)
This morning, I caught snippets of a chat between two women who seemed to be discussing the boyfriend of one of them, or perhaps of a friend of theirs. They were saying that the boyfriend always seemed to brag about his money and status, even in the most unlikely situations, for example saying his office had had a leak during Hurricane Irene, but having to specify that it was some kind of executive suite office, not just "my office." But though they seemed to be saying the guy was sort of an insecure jerk, I caught the phrase "Marry him! Marry him!" I guess because he had money.
Then one of the women seemed to be bemoaning the fact that she'd never have a rich boyfriend. The other woman tried to console her by saying "but at least you're already living the life! I mean, Florida, the Hamptons, here [NYC]..." The first woman responded, "yeah, well, I do a good job looking like it," or something like that, saying that she worked in book publishing, where no one gets rich, so she was just keeping up appearances while being broke.

The whole thing was sort of funny, but also really depressing. I'm embarrassed on behalf of all women when I hear people like that talking about their plots to hook a rich husband, and off-handedly acknowledging that it's more important to them to look rich than to save any money in the hopes of actually being rich, or at least financially stable someday.

Overheard at Lunchtime

Don't you hate it when you're sitting outside eating lunch, enjoying some peace, quiet and fresh air on a sunny day, and then someone sits too close to you and proceeds to yack on a cellphone?
Well, I hate it too, except when that person starts talking about money! I couldn't catch all of what this young woman was saying, but here are some snippets:

I can't understand why people can't afford things. If you work in an office you must be making at least $35,000...

Down there, they can't pay their bills, but they're not stressed out because they're always around people. Up here, everybody's all over the place...

Up here rent is like $200, down there it's like $100...

I know! It's OUTRAGEOUS! Maryland is a nice place to live too. The only thing good here is there's always things to do, but down there you can find things to do too....

It's always money, money, money...

I was going to go to the Bahamas... my mom said she'd pay... but I told her I didn't want her to, because she was saying she wasn't sure when she'd have the money to pay the bill... but she wanted me to come anyway so she'd have company....

It's always fascinating to me to overhear things like this. It makes me so curious about the person's finances and other feelings about money. And in this case, it also made me wonder where the heck anyone was paying $200 a month for rent in NYC!

Overheard at BookExpo

As usual, I attended Book Expo America this past weekend. I didn't have a chance to do much scouting for new personal finance books, but I did manage to score a free copy of Chris Anderson's new book, appropriately titled "Free: The Future of a Radical Price."

The most interesting money-related moment of the show for me actually occurred in the bathroom. There was a very friendly attendant working there who was chatting with all of us waiting in line. Here's what she was saying while I was there, more or less:

I'm working here from 7 AM to 7 at night. No, I don't mind at all. I have another job too!
I go home after this job, I sleep for 2 hours, then I get up and go to my other job, cleaning offices at night. It's ok-- hey, my kids are all grown and out of the house.
I thank God that I have even one job in this economy. Nowadays, I laugh to see all these rich people who are scared! I see it in their faces, they're scared.
And to think, I used to feel intimidated by rich people. That's why they build all those tall buildings, so they can sit in them and look down on everybody...

Contrast this to another conversation I overheard, between two well-dressed young women who worked for publishers.They had obviously just run into each other after not seeing each other for a while:

Woman A: Hey, we have to get together! We still haven't done our Brooklyn thing!
Woman B: I know, I know! But I'm really broke again.
A: And I'm really busy...
B: Well, we have to find a time. Around the 15th of the month is a good time for me.
A: Ok, we'll find a time...

I guess Woman B was scheduling her social activities around payday. It's just fascinating how different people can be in their attitudes towards money and time!

Money at the Deli

I never seem to tire of the weird money-related things that happen in delis. Yesterday when I was getting my lunch, the woman in front of me was complaining about the prices at the deli. She said to the cashier "I know it's not you, it's the owner, but your prices are ridiculous!" He just laughed and rattled off a response that included "shukran" (thank you in Arabic), "shalom" (peace in Hebrew) and "adios" (goodbye in Spanish). Typical New York dialogue!

Then the guy behind me asked for a pack of Camel Lights, and the cashier told him it would be $11. The customer didn't bat an eye, so I guess he's used to it, but no one else in line seemed to be! Last I'd heard, cigarettes were still under $10, so my jaw dropped, and someone further back in line said "ELEVEN DOLLARS! HOLY SH*T!" The cashier was laughing again, and this time his response, all in English, was "yeah, people come in, they complain, five dollars too much for a sandwich, but cigarettes eleven dollars, they don't care!"

For $4.60, I got a tuna sandwich and a little entertainment...

Overheard at the Gym

I can't help myself! I have to share some of the funny conversations I hear that relate to money, even against the advice of some commenters.

This time, I was at the gym, getting dressed after my morning swim. A group of women were talking about dating. One of them swore she would henceforth only date men taller than 5'9" and then proceeded to tell a series of stories about her nightmare experiences with short men, one of whom she believed was trying to compensate for his lack of stature by being "extremely aggressive" about trying to make out with her after their date. She declined his advances but as she was telling this story, she happened to mention that this guy had spent $400 on the dinner they'd had. I couldn't quite hear how she was relating the money aspect to his aggression-- the standard themes are either
"He bought me an expensive dinner and I'm outraged that he thinks that entitles him to sexual favors!"
or
"He bought me an expensive dinner so I can't help feeling slightly guilty that I'm not giving him sexual favors."
In this case, who knows, maybe she was thinking "He spent $400 on dinner hoping it would make me forget that he was short."

Anyway, the $400 dinner comment set all the other women off-- obviously money is a more compelling issue than height! One was talking about a guy she only went out with once because on their first date, he asked "So, should I put this on a credit card and you give me cash for half? Or do you want to put it on your credit card and have me give you cash for half?" Another date ended with a shared cab ride-- the girl lived further away so the cab dropped the guy off first, and he jumped out without giving her any money towards the fare.

Obviously the tone of the conversation was that these women believed men have to pay for dates, period, and that anything else is tantamount to an insult. This always gets on my nerves. As has been discussed many times in this blog's posts and comments, there's more than one way to do things, and more than one reason people might or might not want to share the costs of a date. As far as I'm concerned, it's common courtesy for whoever did the asking to offer to pay for the date, and it's common courtesy for the other party to offer to chip in at some point, if not on that date, perhaps on the next one. If the guy really wants to pay all the time and can afford it, fine, but if he doesn't/can't, it doesn't necessarily mean he doesn't respect you! What should make him question his respect for you is a prima donna attitude towards sharing costs.

The thing about these situations that always does seem a little tacky is ASKING someone else to chip in. It's an awkward thing to have to do, and the person being asked is always going to feel a bit disappointed that they aren't getting a free gift! So the best thing for everyone, in my opinion, is always to volunteer to split the check, or say you'll get the next one. You avoid putting the other person in the uncomfortable position of having to ask you for money, and you avoid putting yourself in the unpleasant position of being asked. You get to feel generous, while the other person can graciously accept or decline. And it's a comfortable way to embrace equality between the sexes while still allowing plenty of opportunity for the good old fashioned male ego to assert itself by paying the check.

"Her Parents Gave Her a Clothing Allowance"

I overheard a fun little elevator conversation the other day, in which someone talked about an editorial assistant who always had the latest clothes because her parents gave her a clothing allowance. Several women in the elevator, including me, broke the usual elevator code of silence to burst out with the same reaction: "Whoa-- her parents gave her a clothing allowance???"

Parental assistance is certainly not a shocking innovation here in New York City, and if you're an entry level editorial assistant in book publishing these days, you've got to be getting assistance with something from someone or you're going to be living on bread and water. But when you hear about people's parents giving them money, it's usually talked about as being "help with the rent" or "paying for the plane ticket to come home at Thanksgiving." Money is fungible, of course-- if your overall budget includes rent, clothing, and travel, it doesn't matter what the parental gift pays for, as it all goes into the same pot. But I think most parents provide assistance under the (probably deluded) assumption that the recipient really can't make ends meet without it, and that it will go towards a very stripped-down budget consisting only of necessities.

Clothing is not that kind of necessity. Yes, to work in an office, even a book publishing office, you need to look somewhat presentable, and women don't quite have the easy "khakis and shirt" escape that men do. But I've never worked anywhere where a young assistant had to have a constantly updated fashionable wardrobe or risk never getting a promotion-- I can't imagine that being the case anywhere except maybe at Vogue and other high-end women's fashion magazines. If someone's parents want to make sure they are properly clad for their new career, a modest one-time gift should do the trick.

Who knows what the true situation was-- maybe this girl was living on an otherwise extremely strict budget and her parents just wanted her to have one thing in her life where she could give herself a bit of a treat... but I doubt it! What do you think?

Overheard on the Subway

I was on an R train the other night, and a young woman behind me asked if she was heading in the right direction. A few people reassured her that she was, and one man continued to talk to her, in a strong Brooklyn accent. I'm not sure exactly how he got onto the subject, but he began telling her that he had worked at the World Trade Center site for 13 hours that day, and that he'd be going back to work 13 more hours the next day. He then proceeded to tell her that he was going to take the test to become a police officer, and that he'd been in the army. Then he announced that his rent was $18,000 a year, and that the GI Bill gave him $1,300 a month just for being in school, and that he also got a Pell grant.
The woman never really seemed to have much to say in response, though perhaps I couldn't hear her-- the guy's voice was quite booming and I'm sure the whole train car could hear him. By the time I got off the train, he was still yacking away, about how he wanted to start his own business, making a line of hip-hop clothing. "I'm too old for that stuff," he said, "but the kids would buy it." I'm sure if I'd gone a few more stops, I would have learned even more details about this man's finances and career ambitions! You never know what you're going to get on the New York City subway!

More on Overheard

Some interesting comments on the post "Overheard About Money." I deliberately posted the quote without any editorial context, partly because I wasn't quite sure what to make of the remark myself, and partly just to see how everyone would take it.
First of all, I was interested to see that several commenters assumed the speaker was male, while several others assumed it was a female. I guess the goals of having a house, a car, and looking good were not seen as being overwhelmingly favored by one sex or another, though many people might think women are the ones who spend the most on "looking good." The car rental clerk was, in fact, a young woman.
Some people read the quote as being that of someone who is willing to work hard:

At least she is working to get the things she wants out of life instead of mooching off everyone else.

I don't think the comment is bad, in fact it can be indicative of this person's work ethic.

Other people felt it was sad that the person was so materialistic:

Working so hard just to look good? Who wants to leave behind a beautiful, young corpse?

I really do have a different philosphy. I will cut back on my lifestyle to be able to support myself while maintaining sanity and a balanced life.

Ultimately, I think most commenters felt that while they didn't agree with the person's priorities, there was something to be admired about her attitude, which was that she would work as much as she needed to in order to get the things she wanted, rather than just saying "I want this and that" without worrying about how to pay for it. If your wants are in line with your ability and willingness to pay for them, that is half the battle!

Overheard About Money

"I don't care if I have to work two jobs, I'm gonna have a nice house and a nice car and I'm gonna look good!"

-Airport car rental agent

Shock and Awe.

That is what I felt last night upon hearing that a friend of a friend sold a piece of art and ended up with pure profit of over $100,000.
Now it's not like this person just lucked out and bought a Picasso at a yard sale-- she is involved in the art world professionally, and apparently spent more than she could really afford to buy the piece 10 years ago. During those 10 years, the art market has been particularly strong, and the artist became better known. So I guess it's some combination of luck and savvy and connections, but still... wow.
The interesting thing is that no one would have talked about this, probably, if she'd just sold a stock. When people make money off of tangible investments, it becomes more public. People will talk about the profits from selling an apartment they've lived in, and in this case, I guess it was okay to talk about something that had been sitting in her living room for years and suddenly wasn't there any more. And I'll bet it was a lot prettier to look at than a Vanguard statement!

Guarding His Money

As I was coming back from lunch just now, I overheard a conversation someone was having with the security guard in the lobby. I really like this guard, though he's new and I don't know his name yet. He's one of these gentle giant types who would look really scary except that he always has a sweet smile on his face.
I guess someone must have told him he looked a little tired, because I heard him say "Well, I only get 2 to 3 hours of sleep a night." When asked why, he said that he also worked another job, as a bouncer at a club. The person he was speaking to then said something like "yeah, yeah, you make the money, you spend the money..." but the security guard said "not me, I'm cheap! I put my money AWAY!"
Now I like the guy even more!